I (still) don’t see anything when I close my eyes
That’s right, I have no visualization ability.
I wrote a fair amount about it here back in 1999, and nothing really has changed. I’m mostly adding a pointer to it from my blog here because I often get email from people who discovered the page and I don’t have time to reply to it all, so I want people to be able to leave comments or talk to each other about it here.
One person did point me at the work of Stephen Kosslyn, which looks like it might be interesting (I haven’t checked it out myself). His book The Case for Mental Imagery seems like a good place to start.
February 16th, 2010 at 7:32 pm
I just wanted to say that you aren’t alone. I have suffered with this condition for 26 years of my life, becoming ‘aware’ of it during early childhood. I was diagnosed at age 13 by my specialist eye doctor with having a visual processing disability. All of the symptoms you describe are exactly the same, and are common in people with these type of disabilities. Generally it can make learning very difficult, though a good many children manage to overcome the issues by training their brain to process visual information in an auditory manner. For instance sound information (the sounds of words, numbers, people’s names and places) can help you replace and trigger retaining of your brain and lesson the difficulty trying to visualize can cause. My doctor described it as often seeing children in class with their eyes shut ”grimacing to see something they just can’t bring into focus. a blankness”. Most children struggle to learn, especially around those that cannot understand the condition. It can cause other issues later in life, such as the ability to have a good sense of direction, driving, telling right from left, reading, and mathematical skills. Those that were discovered to have this condition were often placed in a visual training program to assist children and ease the difficulty it provides. It may require glasses and other brain exercises. It was never reversable for me, but coping with it managed to help me be successful in education. The problem can be entirely related to how the eyes process information or relating to the learning disability itself with various degrees of severity. You have been successful in life, even with having visualization difficulties, but if you are ever very interested in what the cause of the problem is speaking with someone specializing in visual processing disorders would help.
February 20th, 2010 at 9:32 am
I too have never been able to visualise, just cant imagine. Am 40yrs old, found school and learning a breeze. I dream and often see things before I fall to sleep, just cant imagine. I dont think I was disadvantaged through lack of visualisation, more so frustrated at realizing the difference between others and myself and not understanding why.
March 2nd, 2010 at 12:39 am
So strange i stumbled upon this. I am the exact same way, which may seem odd considering I am a graphic design major. My drawing skills are terrible, but by drawing skills i mean my ability to render something accurately from memory. I do believe that I have other skills that are superior though, such as orientation, and being able to recall practically anyone I encounter. The part that has always bothered me is this. I grew up my whole life with a close family, seeing my parents almost everyday of my life. Yet, when i close my eyes and think, really, really hard, I cannot make out a face to my own parents. I mean, I can, but it comes and goes in and out of my mind. Another odd fact, I dream every night. vividly. I can recall my dreams every morning. crazy mind’s.
March 17th, 2010 at 3:53 am
Hi everyone. My name is Bob emailing from Corvallis Oregon.
I’ve had this problem all my life. It is comforting to know that I am not alone. Was so relieved to read Dan’s detailed account and my experience matches his exactly, as it does with the others who have commented here.
Some of the limitations of this affliction I notice the most include: Bad sense of direction (Thank God for navigation systems!!!!
) Unable to draw from memory. Unable to decribe well a physical description of someone.Would absolutely fail as an eyewitness to a crime. If I had to help police render a sketch of the criminal, I would do so poorly I would probably be viewed as a suspect!
What bothers me the most about this affliction is when I close my eyes at night, I can’t picture anyone or anything yet can dream just fine. It especially bothers me that I cannot see my wife or my cat when I close my eyes. I think this makes me more frustrated because when they are not around I miss them all the more because I can’t carry their image with me. Also very disorganzied with stuff. Maybe those who can remember where everything is in their house is, are more likely to care about organization and even neatness????
Not be able to store images makes me sometimes avoid sight seeing because I know that no matter how many great things I see, I won’t be able to see them later in my minds eye.
Now, there some advantages to this affliction. In the same sense that a blind man has a stronger sense of smell and touch, I think this is the case here as well. For example, I can recall conversations much better then most. Hear the voices of all the people I know in my mind. I’ve had to verbalize often to myself to substitute for the lack of visuals. For example I may say to myself when parking my car “Bob, your Blue Honda is parked in lot B-3 near a red car” This probably accounts for my verbal skills being strong since I have to use them so often.
On a lighter note, one additional benefit is the added joy of watching movies more then once: I love watching my favorite movies over and over and over again. While I may have the dialog down and recognize everything I see, there is that part of my brain due to this affliction that gets the thrill of seeing those visuals again and again since I can’t see them in my mind’s eye.
I could go on but I will stop now except to say this. I would give anything to find a cure for this affliction or a treatment. Would also love to chat perhaps on Facebook or something if anyone is interested. If you are, please email me at: bobm174@yahoo.com and I’ll send you an invite. Know it may be hard for many to share this, but I would find it very theraputic.
Thanks,
Bob
March 20th, 2010 at 7:08 pm
I can actually visualize stuff in my head when I think about it, but it’s hard to compare it to anything because I haven’t like, lived in anyone else’s head. If I close my eyes and think about, say, what my brother looks like, I can. I can’t actually SEE it because my eyes are closed, but I have a pretty good idea of how it would look.
As far as reading a novel and imagining how everything looks, it can actually get kind of annoying. When I read a book, I have to imagine what everything looks like, what the people look like, the scenery, etc. It’s great when you want to bring yourself into the text. However, whenever a movie remake of the book comes out, my memories of how everything looks are just shattered and replaced by the movie ones, so that’s a little bit frustrating.
I am left-brained though and have no artistic skills whatsoever. Like you said, I can draw kinda well when I’m looking right at something, but if I try to draw from memory, the lines get smudged together and I can only see one part of the object at a time without looking at the whole thing.
March 29th, 2010 at 11:24 am
i cant see anything when close my eyes.
i can imagine fine but can’t visualize.
i have very sharp and intelligente mind and have a phd degree in civil engineering, but nothing is in my closed eye.
i didnt know this was a problem till married. i known that my wife easely see every thing in her mind.
i think that it is somethg in our right hemisphere of mind.
March 31st, 2010 at 6:09 pm
I’m really excited to have found this thread. I have wondered for a long time about my inability to visualise and stumbled across this site during a bit of a google research.
I was always a bit of an over achiever at school and drove a few of my friends crazy because I never studied or really applied myself, but I think it was because I have a great memory for things I have heard or read, so the traditional “reading a text book, listening to a teacher” method of schooling is perfect for me. I am hopeless as far as anything visual is thrown into the mix.
The first time I realised something was a little different in my head was when I was about 7. I remember learning about estimation and I was really confused about why other kids in the class who I normally outdid were able to estimate things better than me. I guess it’s because I can’t visualise anything well enough to predict a logical estimate.
I have the worst sense of direction in the world. I have absolutely no comprehension of where north or south would be, and no ability to remember anything I have seen to get my bearings if I am lost. It’s not because I don’t pay attention, I have honestly devoted a whole lot of time and energy to learning how to get around easily – it is simply beyond me! It is bad to the point where if I go somewhere regularly I can learn by way by intellectualising it – that is, I can learn “turn right after the Mcdonalds, turn left at the third round-about, stop after the “40″ sign…” however my comprehension of anything I haven’t specifically identified as MY landmark is so bad that if one day I was going to the same place I’d driven to many times, and the “40″ sign had been removed since my last visit, I would probably drive on until I came to another sign or the end of the road! The first time I realised this was a problem for me was the day I got my license – I was driving to school, the same school I’d attended and been dropped-off at for almost two years, and realised that when I was driving there myself I didn’t know how to get there. Very strange!
I was really relieved to see that Thomas noted specifically that he can’t imagine his family. I’ve spent a lot of time feeling quite guilty at not being able to form a mental image of the people I really care about. I can recall the details like “green eyes, brown hair, button nose” and can obviously recognise people, or pictures of people… but to actually imagine what someone looks like without seeing a picture, even my partner who I see every day, is quite impossible for me.
I also had a chuckle about Bob’s comment that he would be a terrible police witness. I’ve often watched crime shows and thought “wow, I would get grilled so hard by the bad cop for my complete lack of helpful information. They would probably lock me up!”
I’ve so far agreed with more or less everything that all the posters here have said, except for the comments about dreams. I can’t visualise when I’m dreaming either. It’s kind of strange, but I might be having a dream about my family for instance, and when I wake up and can still remember it clearly, I will have been dreaming about a whole range of people, and been completely aware of who each person in my dream was, however when I think about the actual visual of them, all of the people were just kind of like crash-test dummies. Just blank human shaped blobs, who all look pretty much the same, only I know exactly who each of the blobs represented.
Anyway, sorry if I’ve gone on a bit… I’m just fascinated to have read about other peoples’ experiences of this as I thought it was a pretty rare thing. So much so that I thought I may have broken an entire section of my brain at some point!
If anyone knows how to improve whatever seems to be failing for us all, I’d be really interested!
April 5th, 2010 at 6:45 pm
Just read your post Kate. As I said in my previous posting, I too would love to find a way to
treat/improve this condition. Some of my goals include:
1) Finding a cure if that is possible.
2) Finding an expert in the field who has the expertise to diagnose, counsel, treat, cure etc.
3) Finding more websites like these to communicate with others who share this affliction.
4) Having a chat/conversation with those who share in this.
I will share one more self-observation. I find myself to be an extremely talkative person. May even so far as to say I’m a “talkoholic!”
I think it is because I rely on my strong verbal side to make up for my lack of visual recall that I always feel starved for conversation.
Bob
April 15th, 2010 at 8:00 pm
I’m like this, too. I’m 37, and it makes me sad that I can’t remember my late mother’s face without looking at a picture of her.
April 29th, 2010 at 8:21 pm
Take two
I have wondered for a long time if there were other people out there that had the same affliction I had. Described in Dan’s blog is quite an accurate account of how my minds eye has been working all these years too.
I have attempted to visualise with my eyes closed, and all I see is black empty space, however, with my eyes open and trying to visualise things, I have these fleeting spectres of images, what you could call silhouettes of shapes. Never in colour and always black with no discernible detail. The silhouettes are so vague it’s frustrating.
I remember the first time I became aware of this inability to visualise was back at university and I was struggling as a student to retain the copious amounts of information being dished out. I started talking to other students and they all described to me that they were able to visualise, and so I spoke with some lecturers, because surely they would have come across someone with this situation before.
One lecturer did say that not all people could visualise in colour, but sometimes in black and white. She recommended a learning therapist, but he was no use, as he suggested a way to improve my learning was to use visual stimuli, so things had to be written down and in colour. What an irony that was.
Also, when I dream – which is not very often – I can see everything so clearly, but when awake, the ability disappears like the reality of the dream itself.
On a funny note: I have been a police witness and I had to identify a mug shot of the culprit… Let’s just say I identified incorrectly. They all looked the same to me. However, I reckon if they were in a line up then I could have identified the person accurately.
It’s comforting in the thought that I’m not the only one out there that is unable to visualise, and to be able to not only share but to understand what someone else has been going through.
Like Bob, I would love find a cure for this…Not being able to picture your friends an family seems to be unjust.
May 18th, 2010 at 4:20 pm
Dan,
Wanted to say that I clicked on the suggested link to Doctor Stephen Kosslyn at Harvard and ended up sending him an email. I made reference to this blog and shared my experiences. He ended up emailing me back and included 4 test questions to help determine whether one has some sort of visual ability.
I’ve decided to cut and past this below. I ended up getting the first 3 questions wrong but was able to answer the last question. I did point out to the good Doctor that in answering the last question, at no time did I feel I was engaged in visualizing.
Bob
————-
From Doctor Kosslyn:
Greetings..
Thank you for contacting me. I’ve received such letters from time to time, and have even had some people come into the lab to be tested. I have yet to find anyone who does not have any form of imagery. Try answering the following, if you will:
What shape are Mickey Mouse’s ears?
Which is darker green, iceberg lettuce or spinach?
In which hand does the Statue of Liberty hold the torch?
Using imagery to answer each of these questions draws on a different brain system, and some people can answer the second two but not the first (which relies on the sort of imagery that most people think of as “imagery”). Could you answer any of them? Or, can you decide what letter an upper case version of “n” is when rotated 90 deg clockwise? That requires yet another form of imagery.
So.. Could you do any of these?
Thanks for your interest.
June 24th, 2010 at 3:16 am
I’m so glad I found this thread!!
I’m 16 and have been starting to realize that I can’t draw upon my memories right. I can retain information about events in my life (who/what/when/where) but I can’t see it. I can’t see faces when I close my eyes. I can’t relive the happy or sad moments I’ve had. I don’t even remember much about anything longer than a year ago.
I’m just glad to know that I’m not alone, and that I can figure this out.
It’s the saddest thing to sit with your friends while they talk about years past while you just kinda shrug, not really remembering what they’re talking about. People, Places, Happy Times. If they happened, I didn’t know about it..
July 27th, 2010 at 6:04 am
So glad I found this thread. I too have very low visualisation and learning skills. Actually educational theorists know about the different styles of learning and that people have different levels of each learning style – but I think I am unusually low on the visual learning.
From memory, the differen learning styles are:
Visual – people see pictures and use visual clues in their language – yes I can see that, I can see your point of view, I get the picture etc
Aural – can hear what has been said, good at memorising conversations/lectures. Tend to be slower at reading as silently vocalises the words in their head. Learn to read by phonetics rather than whole word recognition. Speech patterns would include I hear what you are saying, I think I know what you are saying …
Kinesthetic – learn by doing, physical action learning – learn better if can move around, touch feel, repeat (repeating physical action, not rote learning). Can’t remember the speech patterns for this.
Certainly in the UK all of this is taught on education courses (or the ones I have been on) and teachers are encouraged to include methods suitable for all learning styles in their lessons, but I’m not sure how much of that gets put through into the classroom.
I can remember birthdays, anniversaries, to do lists but could never rote learn – failed abysmally at things like learning French and Latin vocabulary and verb structures but did well at aural French. In drama I could not learn lines but I could improvise. I have really good logical and analytical skills but don’t remember details (I would term it trivial details but that is just my bias). I have a degree in English but can’t quote from any of the texts I have read – I just excelled at literary criticism and at creative writing. Interestingly, I do find things like mind maps help, but only because I remember the patterns and relationships in them and therefore can recreate them, not because I picture them. I can also think around problems very easily “out of the box” , I think creatively and therefore find problem solving and innovation easy. I can draw quite well if something is right in front of me, though I find perspective difficult. I can’t draw from memory at all.
Now for slight controversy. I don’t think I was always like this. As a small child I learned visually but was damaged by a measles vaccine (old dirty type – one of the first ones that actually gave you measles) – this damaged my eyesight so I find it difficult to use both eyes together, it also damaged my nervous system. This isn’t me saying this by the way and I didn’t know it as a child, I just got clumsy and forgot how to do things (throwing and catching a ball and skipping for instance) – I have been told this by opticians and also by a psychiatrist (I have a nervous tick and so was sent for analysis to see if I had nervous problems – they said I hadn’t it was physical and is caused by measles – my Mum and I both stated categorically that I hadn’t had measles – we went through the history of when the “symptoms” first appeared in fine detail and finally we said it was just after I had my measles jab – that led to an “I told you so” moment from them). The reason we hadn’t linked things properly in our minds was that within a couple of days of having the jab I came down with mumps and then immediately after that Glandular Fever and we had always thought it was the Glandular Fever.
Sorry this is so long!
Joy
July 27th, 2010 at 6:10 am
Oh by the way – I can answer all of the Doctor’s “visual” questions above but through logic not through visualisation. Of course I “know” the difference in colours and the shape of things, but that is because I remember the logical relationships between them – shapes, different shades. I never said I couldn’t see, just I can’t visualise when it isn’t in front of me. Don’t get his logic at all!
July 28th, 2010 at 5:54 am
About 6 months ago I reached a milestone in my work. I was meditating using vibrations. For the first time in my life I visualised and stepped up to a higher level. Anyway since then I have been trying to recreate this phenomenon. One thing is missing though the day after this experience I went down with a really bad cold/flu. Now we know that as children when we run a temperature we are prone to bad nightmares. The sickness seems to break down a barrier. This mean that by using drugs I would be able to visualise. My question is Do I have the ability to visualise and only need practice or do I need assistance to visualise. I don`t believe in drugs They are pseudo so it only remains to keep working. I would love to be able to find a solution since not visualising is the wall between Nirvana and I.
July 30th, 2010 at 12:54 pm
A lack of visualization ability is often associated with NVLD: http://www.med.umich.edu/yourchild/topics/nld.htm
August 1st, 2010 at 3:22 pm
Mmmm, looking at the site Kyle H recommends
What are the signs of NLD?
* Great vocabulary and verbal expression – OK I have good verbal expression but actually not that great a vocabulary
* Excellent memory skills – not particularly – see my post above.
* Attention to detail, but misses the big picture – no – not me – I am very much a big picture person
* Trouble understanding reading – nope – no problems understanding reading
* Difficulty with math, especially word problems – nope – in fact I find word problems a lot easier than maths requiring mental arithmatic.
* Poor abstract reasoning – no I have excellent abstract reasoning.
* Physically awkward; poor coordination – true
* Messy and laborious handwriting – true
* Concrete thinking; taking things very literally – no – think very much in abstract terms a lot of the time.
* Trouble with nonverbal communication, like body language, facial expression and tone of voice – not really.
* Poor social skills; difficulty making and keeping friends – yes and no – I do have lots of friends but don’t find it that easy, though very easy to make casual friends.
* Fear of new situations – definately not.
* Trouble adjusting to changes – definately not
* May be very naïve and lack common sense – sometimes – especially when younger.
* Anxiety, depression, low self-esteem – sometimes – especially when younger
* May withdraw, becoming agoraphobic (abnormal fear of open spaces) – definatel not
So where does that leave us – and how does everyone else here judge themselves against this list?
August 1st, 2010 at 9:06 pm
I thought it was normal to NOT be able to visualize, until recently. (I’m 51) Both my sister and I can’t see images at all. Her sons thought we were both lying, as did we when they stated that they could. My sister and I both dream in vivid and elaborate detail but see nothing but black with our eyes closed, while awake.
I am very good at both following and giving directions but I use my excellent memory. My nephews who see images easily have what I consider a poor memory. (although one is worse than the other) Like Bridget, I cannot see my mothers image in my minds eye. I know what she looks like, just fine….bu tI have to rely on a picture of her while awake. I can see both of my parents in my dreams and all kinds of people that I’ve never met, in vivid detail. While awake, with eyes closed…nothing but blackness.
August 2nd, 2010 at 5:26 pm
Wow! Glad I found this. At 52, I am in the same boat. While unable to “see” my mother’s face in my mind, I know or…have a sense…of what she looks like. But it is by no means an image. My dreams are as real as life but, when I close my eyes and try to “picture” someone or something, I see darkness. No picture. No image. Just black…sometimes with swirls of gray…on the black background. Upon finding some ideas on the Internet, I am trying an exercise designed to develop my ability to visualize. My computer no displays a simple b&w image every ten minutes. When it pops-up, I focus on it for 10-15 seconds and then close my eyes and try to “see” it. Today is my first day and I have already had some success! You can be sure that I will return to report any further progress. Glad I found you guys! I think we can beat this!
August 8th, 2010 at 9:49 am
I am 41 years old and have never met anyone who, like myself only sees black and white when they close their eyes. This became glaringly obvious when in my early 20′s I took a yoga class and was asked by the instructor to visualize different colors in different areas of my body. It really bums me out. All of your entries have been really thought provoking. I have a great imagination and like one person mentioned above, I am an avid reader and refuse to see a movie that has been made from a book due to images I have already in my mind of the characters. Wig that said,I don’t see them as I can’t see anything when I close my eyes
Only black and white…….the difference between imagination and visualization is really interesting . Does being an ARIES make a difference?
September 1st, 2010 at 8:18 am
When I was ten years old, I was sent away to a boarding school, from which I used to come home twice a year for school holidays. I recall very well feeling apprehensive as the time came to meet my mother again after an absence of four or five months that I would not recognise her, because I could not summon up a mental image of what she looked like. However, I always recognized her the moment I saw her, and my feelings of apprehension disappeared after a few such reunions.
I can recall a photographic image of someone’s face far better than I can recall a living image; the recalled photographic image is by no means clear and precise, but it is better than the almost nothing I have in the case of a living image. Also, the better I know someone, the less precisely am I able to visualise what he or she looks like. I have described this by saying that when I get to know someone well, that person “disappears into me”. What I am meaning by this is that I feel that I cannot recall the visual appearance of a person for whom I have strong emotional feelings because there is so much else about that person that I know, and so much else about what I know that is much more important than the outward appearance of that person, that the superficial outward aspect is lost beneath the weight and volume of all else I know.
I would love to be able to bring to mind and play with clear, vivid images and I have been thinking about the matter on and off over the past few months. I’ve been experimenting by looking very carefully at familiar objects in my immediate environment and then looking away and trying to recall a picture of the object in my mind. For instance, I tried to recall what our dining room chairs look like. Yes, they are wooden, dark wood, yes, they have padded seats that I can visualise, but what do the back-rests of the chairs look like? I had no idea at all. So I went to have a look, then I studied them very carefully; looked away, tried to recall the image; studied the back-rests of the chairs again; looked away …. And, after many tries, I thought I had the image of the design of the back-rests of the chairs firmly memorised. Well, that was about a week ago. As I sit here now at the computer, the dining room chairs and table are right behind me. I am in fact sitting on one of the chairs. And I cannot recall what the backrest looks like!
This morning, having woken up very early, I was lying in bed in the dark and experimenting with trying to visualise things. I have recently downloaded some information on Image Streaming – http://www.winwenger.com/imstream.htm – and was trying some of the techniques recommended there, which Wenger says will help almost anyone develop an ability to create and use vivid images. Well, when I deliberately try to visualise an object or person, then I get a blurry, vague, ghostly monochrome image; and when I just close my eyes and wait for an image to appear, I get nothing to break the darkness in front of my mental eyes!
But then I stopped trying and suddenly, while I was in that hypnogogic state, a sudden very clear, bright 3D image of a section of a cobbled path flashed into my mind, and then was gone. I tried to recreate it, but I couldn’t. Still, there and then I decided that I am going to make a concerted effort to learn to visualise at will such quality images. I am telling myself that it has got to be something like learning to whistle (a sad comparison, because, alas, I have never succeeded in learning to whistle) or, come to think of it, to play the bugle (another sad comparison, because I spent two years in the school cadet band trying unsuccessfully to learn to play the bugle!) and that if I succeed I will have at my disposal a marvellous tool!
“Here is my secret. It is very simple. It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; What is essential is invisible to the eye.” – The Little Prince by Antoine de Saint Exupery